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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 62 post(s) |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1293
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Posted - 2014.04.28 21:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Having read through the thread I now have a few comments.
Firstly, 95% nice changes. Complexity simply for complexities sake is a bad thing and the ME changes are a good simplification without loosing significant effect.
Secondly, Research credit. Please no. If you implement this it will be abused by large scale groups to do things like gain perfect titan BPO's by pooling all their credit from smaller BPO's from multiple people. A few people may loose some actual effort as a result of this change. HTFU. It's not the end of the world and you got to benefit from that all the way along anyway. (I loose some time on some of my BPO's myself like this, I'll live)
Thirdly, T2 BPO's, I do think now is the time to look at removing them. Every change to industry requires taking special steps just for them, they are a poorly thought out grandfathering from the early days, and people need to acknowledge that. The copy change may also be only an extra 6.25%, but you are looking at the wrong statistic on the market when you consider them. Currently you look at market share and say 'But it's a low market share'. Instead consider profit share. The Inventors will be cutting very slim margins of a few percent above simply selling all the components. Meaning that for every 10 Invented items, they get the profit of 1 BPO item probably. Which means that the actual profit share of T2 BPO's is vastly greater than their market share would indicate. Even a 5% market share could be as high as a 50% profit share. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1294
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Posted - 2014.04.28 21:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aryth wrote:After some internal debate we want to point out something. It isn't 6.25%. It will be more like 60%. I doubt CCP wants T2 BPO production to more than double. So barring some other changes we haven't seen yet this is what will occur.
Could you explain why that is for Goons T2 BPO's. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1294
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Posted - 2014.04.28 21:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for putting that out in the light Weasilor. Combined with the fact that the profit margins for any T2 BPO are higher, this is going to make for a significant change in the flow of profit to T2 BPO holders. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1294
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Posted - 2014.04.28 21:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Querns wrote:Leveraging a 60%+ increase to the profitability of a T2 BPO due to lowering the copy time is going to drive an immense amount of invention to unfeasibility. This cannot be allowed to be brought to Tranquility in its current state.
My recommendation is to "bake in" the T3 Gallente Outpost bonus to copying speed into the T2 BPO, such that if you copy at a T3 Gallente Outpost, you receive copies at the same rate that the currently proposed math suggests they arrive (the math that does not take T3 Gallente Outposts into consideration.)
Why not just remove T2 BPO's so this doesn't come up every single time they try to touch industry.
Give everyone who currently holds a T2 BPO a collectors item and 36*1 Month runs worth of BPC's at the same ME/PE(TE) levels.
If three years of production worth that can be run on multiple lines rather than just one, and a collectors item isn't good enough for someone.... those people will never be satisfied unless they get pure bonuses with no nerfs ever so don't even bother trying to please them. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1294
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
Which would mean I could put out 1.6 BPC's a day instead of building 1 ship per day... and still make less profit (by far) than building and selling the ship myself.
Except you could build 1.6 ships a day. Really, Grrr Goons might be a thing, but when it comes to exploiting a mechanic for all it's worth, don't try and tell the goons they don't know what they are doing. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1294
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:They are free to do that when they apply the same system to every BPO in the game. 
T1 BPO's can be 'produced' fresh by a player. Without paying scam prices to another player.
T2 BPO's can not. If a T2 BPO is profitable it will not sell without being a scam price. If it is not profitable then it also will be a scam price on sale because it's not profitable.
T2 BPO's also displace inventors who are unable to compete due to the lowered production costs of the BPO.
Thus T2 BPO's are an inherently unfair mechanic that was grandfathered into the game because early CCP didn't realise the long term impact of leaving them around.
The fact that every single time industry gets touched special consideration keeps needing to be given to the special case of T2 BPO's and how to avoid screwing over inventors says that they should be removed for the health of the game.
If you use a T2 BPO for production, 3 years worth of production is a reasonably fair compensation. If price margins say it could be 4 or it could be 2. But the point is that it would then be a limited resource that would run out and would not require special treatment or balancing any more.
If you hold a T2 BPO for collectors value, the collectors items would still have their identical value as collectors items. If they dropped in value as a result of becoming non functional then obviously they had value for their production capability, in which case, refer to the above sentence for how that value was already compensated. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1294
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
There is also no other BPO in the game that is no longer available for players to acquire, so T2 BPO's already are in a special position relative to all other BPO's. Hence why they require special treatment.
You can harp on about 'How I can make more with a well set up invention chain' but that is due to utilising all your build lines. If you have sufficient BPO's to utilise all your build lines you are not making more with invention, you are making more with BPO's. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1294
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
I"m sorry, where did you get the figure that only 22% of Pilgrims came from invention?
A while back CCP released some figures showing how much some markets were using T2 BPO's.
Quite a few of the T2 ship markets were nearly all T2 BPO production with almost no invention (And the invention count included people who build for themselves using 'free' minerals and don't take opportunity cost into account for profit)
I don't have a direct reference but I do know that the figures showed there are actually a significant number of T2 BPO's out there that have a real impact on the market. |
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